Land creatures

[Biggus Dickus]

Howdy,

A instant such as ...

Natural Affinity
{2}{G}
Instant
Until end of turn, all lands become 2/2 creatures that are still
lands.

So, what happens if these land creatures are dealt two or more damage
each (by whatever means) I guess they die? (ie the land/creature goes
to the graveyard)

thanks

Gus

[Chris Mattern]

Post by Biggus Dickus
Howdy,
A instant such as ...
Natural Affinity
{2}{G}
Instant
Until end of turn, all lands become 2/2 creatures that are still
lands.
So, what happens if these land creatures are dealt two or more damage
each (by whatever means) I guess they die? (ie the land/creature goes
to the graveyard)

Yep. HEL-lo, Pyroclasm!

Chris Mattern

[Biggus Dickus]

Post by Chris Mattern

Post by Biggus Dickus
Howdy,
A instant such as ...
Natural Affinity
{2}{G}
Instant
Until end of turn, all lands become 2/2 creatures that are still
lands.
So, what happens if these land creatures are dealt two or more damage
each (by whatever means) I guess they die? (ie the land/creature goes
to the graveyard)

Yep. HEL-lo, Pyroclasm!
Chris Mattern

:-)

YOW! >:-)

I was thinking more "Lure" and mass attack, or maybe Lure on Gang of
Elk ;-)

Or... hmm, I guess Echoing Decay could target a land/creature and the
'name' could be "Forest" or "Swamp" (or whatever) and kill all
land/creatures of this "name"?

thanks,

Gus

[Daniel W. Johnson]

Post by Biggus Dickus
Or... hmm, I guess Echoing Decay could target a land/creature and the
'name' could be "Forest" or "Swamp" (or whatever) and kill all
land/creatures of this "name"?

Echoing Decay
{1}{B}
Instant
Target creature and all other creatures with the same name as that
creature get -2/-2 until end of turn.

Yes. It says "Target creature", not "Target non-land creature". And it
says "all other creatures with the same name", not "all other non-land
creatures with the same name".

[David DeLaney]

Post by Biggus Dickus
Or... hmm, I guess Echoing Decay could target a land/creature and the
'name' could be "Forest" or "Swamp" (or whatever) and kill all
land/creatures of this "name"?

Sure, that works fine. (ED has no effect on noncreatures with that name,
notice... but if somehow you give a noncreature -2/-2 until end of turn,
it has no particular effect on that noncreature unless it becomes a creature
later that turn.)

Dave

[Daniel W. Johnson]

Post by Biggus Dickus
Natural Affinity
{2}{G}
Instant
Until end of turn, all lands become 2/2 creatures that are still
lands.
So, what happens if these land creatures are dealt two or more damage
each (by whatever means) I guess they die? (ie the land/creature goes
to the graveyard)

It would be destroyed. You haven't described anything that would create
an exception to the rules:

420.5. The state-based effects are as follows:

420.5c A creature with lethal damage, but greater than 0 toughness, is
destroyed. Lethal damage is an amount of damage greater than or equal to
a creature's toughness. Regeneration does replace this event.

[Jeff Heikkinen]

Biggus Dickus, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...

Post by Biggus Dickus
Howdy,
A instant such as ...
Natural Affinity
{2}{G}
Instant
Until end of turn, all lands become 2/2 creatures that are still
lands.
So, what happens if these land creatures are dealt two or more damage
each (by whatever means) I guess they die? (ie the land/creature goes
to the graveyard)

Yep, just like any other creature. The fact that they're lands too
doesn't give them any special immunities.

[Peter]

Post by Biggus Dickus
Howdy,
A instant such as ...
Natural Affinity
{2}{G}
Instant
Until end of turn, all lands become 2/2 creatures that are still
lands.
So, what happens if these land creatures are dealt two or more damage
each (by whatever means) I guess they die? (ie the land/creature goes
to the graveyard)
thanks
Gus

Sure.
Otherwise this combo wouldn't work:
***
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa {4GG}
Creature -- Druid Legend 4/3
Onslaught Rare
- {G}: Target land becomes a 1/1 creature until end of turn. It's
still a land.
- {2}{G}{G}{G}: Creatures you control get +3/+3 and gain trample until
end of turn.
***
Goblin Sharpshooter {2R}
Creature -- Goblin 1/1
Onslaught Rare
- Goblin Sharpshooter doesn't untap during your untap step.
- Whenever a creature is put into a graveyard from play, untap Goblin
Sharpshooter.
- {T}: Goblin Sharpshooter deals 1 damage to target creature or
player.
***

Yeah, turn their lands into creatures and pick 'em off with the ol'
sharpshooter. Genius.

Peter

[David DeLaney]

Post by Biggus Dickus
A instant such as ...
Natural Affinity >{2}{G} >Instant
Until end of turn, all lands become 2/2 creatures that are still lands.
So, what happens if these land creatures are dealt two or more damage
each (by whatever means) I guess they die? (ie the land/creature goes
to the graveyard)

Yep. This permanent is a land and it's a creature; it follows the rules for
both. Creatures with lethal damage are destroyed by a state-based effect,
so a land creature with lethal damage is destroyed by a state-based effect.

This does not in any way "make a copy of the permanent sitting next to it
such that the original is just a land and the copy is just a creature" or
anything like that; it gives an additional permanent type to the land (and
a power/toughness with it, which are qualities that creatures require but
lands don't have by default).

Dave

[Lophophora]

Post by David DeLaney

Post by Biggus Dickus
A instant such as ...
Natural Affinity >{2}{G} >Instant
Until end of turn, all lands become 2/2 creatures that are still lands.
So, what happens if these land creatures are dealt two or more damage
each (by whatever means) I guess they die? (ie the land/creature goes
to the graveyard)

Yep. This permanent is a land and it's a creature; it follows the rules for
both. Creatures with lethal damage are destroyed by a state-based effect,
so a land creature with lethal damage is destroyed by a state-based effect.
This does not in any way "make a copy of the permanent sitting next to it
such that the original is just a land and the copy is just a creature" or
anything like that; it gives an additional permanent type to the land (and
a power/toughness with it, which are qualities that creatures require but
lands don't have by default).
Dave

When these lands become creatures, do they suffer from "summoning
sickness"? I know that when someone takes control of a creature in
play that it suffers from summoning sickness so I wondered if the same
thing applies to the above scenario.

Thanks.

[Peter Cooper Jr.]

Post by Lophophora
When these lands become creatures, do they suffer from "summoning
sickness"? I know that when someone takes control of a creature in
play that it suffers from summoning sickness so I wondered if the same
thing applies to the above scenario.

Yes, but perhaps not how you're thinking of it.

If a permanent is a creature, it can't attack or use activated
abilities with the tap symbol in cost unless that permanent was under
its controller's control since the beginning of his most recent turn.

Note that it doesn't need to be a creature since the beginning of the
turn. It just needs to be under its controller's control.

So, if you played a land this turn, and then it becomes a creature, it
can't attack. It also can't tap for mana, or use any other activated
abilities with the tap symbol in the cost.

But, if you played a land last turn, and then it becomes a creature
this turn, it can do anything.

Does that clear things up for you?

[Lophophora]

Post by Peter Cooper Jr.

Post by Lophophora
When these lands become creatures, do they suffer from "summoning
sickness"? I know that when someone takes control of a creature in
play that it suffers from summoning sickness so I wondered if the same
thing applies to the above scenario.

Yes, but perhaps not how you're thinking of it.
If a permanent is a creature, it can't attack or use activated
abilities with the tap symbol in cost unless that permanent was under
its controller's control since the beginning of his most recent turn.
Note that it doesn't need to be a creature since the beginning of the
turn. It just needs to be under its controller's control.
So, if you played a land this turn, and then it becomes a creature, it
can't attack. It also can't tap for mana, or use any other activated
abilities with the tap symbol in the cost.
But, if you played a land last turn, and then it becomes a creature
this turn, it can do anything.
Does that clear things up for you?

Ok, assuming that all lands I control have been in play since the
beginning of my turn, I then make them all 2/2 creatures in addition
to being lands and they will lose creature status at the end my turn.
These new 2/2 creatures have not been in play since the beginning of
my turn so why doesn't summoning sickness apply?

[Peter Cooper Jr.]

Post by Lophophora
Ok, assuming that all lands I control have been in play since the
beginning of my turn, I then make them all 2/2 creatures in addition
to being lands and they will lose creature status at the end my turn.
These new 2/2 creatures have not been in play since the beginning of
my turn so why doesn't summoning sickness apply?

Since those land-creature *have* been in play since the beginning of
your turn. They may be creatures in addition to being lands now, but
they're the same cards.

There aren't "new" 2/2 creatures... It's just that the lands in play
happen to also be creatures now. Much like when you give something
flying until end of turn, it changes what it can do, but it's the same
creature.

[Lophophora]

Post by Peter Cooper Jr.

Post by Lophophora
Ok, assuming that all lands I control have been in play since the
beginning of my turn, I then make them all 2/2 creatures in addition
to being lands and they will lose creature status at the end my turn.
These new 2/2 creatures have not been in play since the beginning of
my turn so why doesn't summoning sickness apply?

Since those land-creature *have* been in play since the beginning of
your turn. They may be creatures in addition to being lands now, but
they're the same cards.
There aren't "new" 2/2 creatures... It's just that the lands in play
happen to also be creatures now. Much like when you give something
flying until end of turn, it changes what it can do, but it's the same
creature.

Got it. Thanks for the help.

[David DeLaney]

Post by Lophophora

Post by Peter Cooper Jr.
If a permanent is a creature, it can't attack or use activated
abilities with the tap symbol in cost unless that permanent was under
its controller's control since the beginning of his most recent turn.
Note that it doesn't need to be a creature since the beginning of the
turn. It just needs to be under its controller's control.
So, if you played a land this turn, and then it becomes a creature, it
can't attack. It also can't tap for mana, or use any other activated
abilities with the tap symbol in the cost.
But, if you played a land last turn, and then it becomes a creature
this turn, it can do anything.
Does that clear things up for you?

Ok, assuming that all lands I control have been in play since the
beginning of my turn, I then make them all 2/2 creatures in addition
to being lands and they will lose creature status at the end my turn.
These new 2/2 creatures have not been in play since the beginning of
my turn so why doesn't summoning sickness apply?

Because summoning sickness doesn't care if they were creatures -then-. These
2/2 creatures -have- been in play since the beginning of your turn... they
just weren't CREATURES back then. Summoning sickness asks "Is it a creature
NOW?" and "Have you controlled it, whatever it may have been, since your
turn started?". It does not ask "Has this been a creature AND under your
control since your turn started?".

Dave

[David DeLaney]

Post by Lophophora

Post by David DeLaney
Yep. This permanent is a land and it's a creature; it follows the rules for
both. Creatures with lethal damage are destroyed by a state-based effect,
so a land creature with lethal damage is destroyed by a state-based effect.
This does not in any way "make a copy of the permanent sitting next to it
such that the original is just a land and the copy is just a creature" or
anything like that; it gives an additional permanent type to the land (and
a power/toughness with it, which are qualities that creatures require but
lands don't have by default).

When these lands become creatures, do they suffer from "summoning
sickness"?

Depends. Were they "sick" before they became creatures? If so, they'll still
be 'sick' afterwards. If they were not, they won't be.

Things (_all_ permanents) get 'sick' as they come into play, or as they
change controllers; they stop being 'sick' as their controller's turn starts.
Only creatures CARE whether they are 'sick' or not, but all permanents do
get the condition. It just doesn't affect noncreatures.

So if you've controlled the land since the start of your latest turn already,
it isn't 'sick', and turning it into a land creature won't _make_ it 'sick'.
If you just played it this turn, it is 'sick' (but unaffected) before it
becomes a creature... and after it becomes a creature is both 'sick' and
affected by being 'sick' - you can no longer tap it for mana.

Post by Lophophora
I know that when someone takes control of a creature in
play that it suffers from summoning sickness so I wondered if the same
thing applies to the above scenario.

Nope. Changing controllers, and coming into play, makes things 'sick'.
Changing types or forms while sitting where it is doesn't make something
'sick'.

Dave

[Andy Jakcsy]

Lophophora sez:

<<

Post by Lophophora
When these lands become creatures, do they suffer from "summoning
sickness"?

Only if they haven't been controlled by you since the start of your most recent
turn. That's the only qualifier for summoning sickness for creatures.


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