yet another trample question...

[Cannibal]

i was told yesterday that if i attack with a creature with trample and
my opponent blocks with a sakura tribe elder that if they sac the elder
BEFORE damage goes on the stack that none of my damage goes through....

that just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

-Cannibal-

[Peter Cooper Jr.]

Post by Cannibal
i was told yesterday that if i attack with a creature with trample and
my opponent blocks with a sakura tribe elder that if they sac the elder
BEFORE damage goes on the stack that none of my damage goes through....
that just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

That doesn't make any sense to me, either.

Certainly if your attacking creature didn't have trample, then removal
of all blockers before damage goes on the stack would keep your
creature from dealing damage. That may be the source of confusion
here. But since it does have trample, you merely have to assign lethal
damage to all (zero) blocking creatures before assigning the remaining
damage (all of it) to the defending player.

[Jeff Heikkinen]

Chances are suprisingly good that Cannibal was not wearing pants when he

Post by Cannibal
i was told yesterday that if i attack with a creature with trample and
my opponent blocks with a sakura tribe elder that if they sac the elder
BEFORE damage goes on the stack that none of my damage goes through....
that just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

There is a very simple reason why it doesn't make sense to you - it's
wrong.

*ALL* the damage will go through. You need to assign lethal damage to
all blockers, which in this case is a big fat zero, then you are free to
assign the rest to the defending player. In fact, this is one of the few
cases where "free" is the wrong choice of words; you MUST assign all the
damage to the defending player, because there is nowhere else to assign
it.

I can't remember how this would have worked under the old trample rules,
but it doesn't matter - they're six and a half years out of date, so
even if the person who told you that is correct by, say, Fifth Edition
rules, it's really no excuse at this point.

[Risser]

Post by Jeff Heikkinen
There is a very simple reason why it doesn't make sense to you -
it's wrong.

Although, we all know that that's not necessarily a good litmus test in
this forum. :)

Peter

[Risser]

For the record, though you probably knew this, if you sac the elder
AFTER the damage is on the stack, any damage that would have gone to
the elder is never dealt. The rest tramples through as usual. So your
opponent could soak up at least one damage with the elder before
sac'ing it. More if you were feeling generous or paranoid.

Peter

[David DeLaney]

Post by Cannibal
i was told yesterday that if i attack with a creature with trample and
my opponent blocks with a sakura tribe elder that if they sac the elder
BEFORE damage goes on the stack that none of my damage goes through....

Nope, that's not at all correct. If a Trampling attacker is blocked, but
has no blockers left by the time damage goes on the stack? That attacker
_must_ assign all its combat damage straight to defending player (and will
a bit later deal it there too). Why? Because a) it's -legal- for the attacker
to assign damage there - "lethal damage to all its blockers" is "zero" if
it has no blockers, so there's nothing stopping it and b) there's nowhere
-else- legal to assign the damage. So it all has to go there.

Your friend is getting this SEVERELY confused, I believe, with the case of
an attacker _without_ Trample - there, the blocked attacker isn't allowed to
assign damage to defending player at all (no Trample) and has nowhere else it
can assign it, so none gets assigned. If the attacker DOESN'T have Trample,
things work like your friend thinks. If it DOES, then removing all the blockers
before damage goes on the stack results in all the damage going straight to
defending player...

Dave

[jp]

Post by David DeLaney

Post by Cannibal
i was told yesterday that if i attack with a creature with trample and
my opponent blocks with a sakura tribe elder that if they sac the elder
BEFORE damage goes on the stack that none of my damage goes through....

Nope, that's not at all correct. If a Trampling attacker is blocked, but
has no blockers left by the time damage goes on the stack? That attacker
_must_ assign all its combat damage straight to defending player (and will
a bit later deal it there too). Why? Because a) it's -legal- for the attacker
to assign damage there - "lethal damage to all its blockers" is "zero" if
it has no blockers, so there's nothing stopping it and b) there's nowhere
-else- legal to assign the damage. So it all has to go there.
Your friend is getting this SEVERELY confused, I believe, with the case of
an attacker _without_ Trample - there, the blocked attacker isn't allowed to
assign damage to defending player at all (no Trample) and has nowhere else it
can assign it, so none gets assigned. If the attacker DOESN'T have Trample,
things work like your friend thinks. If it DOES, then removing all the blockers
before damage goes on the stack results in all the damage going straight to
defending player...
Dave

Thanks to everyone for the input. it seemed like it was wrong from word
one, but i have been surprised with rulings in the past... and i'm sure
that i will be surprised in the future...

thanks again,

-Cannibal-