Summoning sickness ruling please

[Michael]

I haven't played Magic for a few years now. However, recently I sat
down with a friend of my daughter and played him a few games. He did
something I believe is illegal. Here's how it went.

During his turn, he plays a creature that requires to tap to do an
ability. The creature suffers summoning sickness and he agrees to this
part of the situation.

However, during my turn, he taps his "just summoned" creature and uses
its ability. I told him he couldn't do that until the beginning of his
next turn. He, however, informs me that the rules now say that a
creature suffers summoning sickness until the end of the caster's turn
and he can do its ability during the next player's turn.

Example: Play a Royal Assassin. It suffers summoning. But, during the
next player's turn, he taps the Assassin to kill a tapped creature the
other player has.

When I played all those years ago, the creature had to wait until my turn
came around again to tap to do it's ability. I'm not talking about
creatures like Frozen Shades, that CAN be pumped up and doesn't need to tap
to do it.

I've looked at the core rules and I can't find anything about summoning
or summoning sickness. But still, I can't believe that the rules have
changed on this particular situation. Could someone give me a heads upon
on this?

Please feel free to email me with your reply.

[Chris Wiegert]

Post by Michael
I haven't played Magic for a few years now. However, recently I sat
down with a friend of my daughter and played him a few games. He did
something I believe is illegal. Here's how it went.
During his turn, he plays a creature that requires to tap to do an
ability. The creature suffers summoning sickness and he agrees to this
part of the situation.
However, during my turn, he taps his "just summoned" creature and uses
its ability. I told him he couldn't do that until the beginning of his
next turn. He, however, informs me that the rules now say that a
creature suffers summoning sickness until the end of the caster's turn
and he can do its ability during the next player's turn.

Nope. You are correct, it has summoning sickness until the beginning of
*his* next turn, not yours, and it's always been that way.

[Keith Piddington]

Michael (***@hotmail.com) wrote:
: I haven't played Magic for a few years now. However, recently I sat
: down with a friend of my daughter and played him a few games. He did
: something I believe is illegal. Here's how it went.

: During his turn, he plays a creature that requires to tap to do an
: ability. The creature suffers summoning sickness and he agrees to this
: part of the situation.

: However, during my turn, he taps his "just summoned" creature and uses
: its ability. I told him he couldn't do that until the beginning of his
: next turn. He, however, informs me that the rules now say that a
: creature suffers summoning sickness until the end of the caster's turn
: and he can do its ability during the next player's turn.

You are right, your opponent is wrong. The rule has not changed...

: I've looked at the core rules and I can't find anything about summoning
: or summoning sickness. But still, I can't believe that the rules have
: changed on this particular situation. Could someone give me a heads upon
: on this?

...but the terminology has. "Summoning sickness" is no longer an Official
Magic Term, nor in fact is "summoning". But the rule is the same: a
creature has to be under your control through the start of your turn
before it can be tapped on its own. (other things can cause it to tap
beforehand, however) Also, the creature could have come under your
control during your turn or your opponent's - but unless it has "Haste"
(the New Term meaning "does not have summoning sickness") it is sick until
your upkeep.


Keith

[David DeLaney]

Keith Piddington <***@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca> wrote:

All good up to...

Post by Keith Piddington
...but the terminology has. "Summoning sickness" is no longer an Official
Magic Term, nor in fact is "summoning". But the rule is the same: a
creature has to be under your control through the start of your turn
before it can be tapped on its own. (other things can cause it to tap
beforehand, however) Also, the creature could have come under your
control during your turn or your opponent's - but unless it has "Haste"
(the New Term meaning "does not have summoning sickness") it is sick until
your upkeep.

Nope. It stops being 'sick' as his turn starts, before anything can even
untap or phase in. (This is _why_ things that phase in do so as though
they had haste, for a duration, by the way.) It doesn't wait until his
upkeep to stop being 'sick'.

Dave

[Keith Piddington]

David DeLaney (***@gatekeeper.vic.com) wrote:
: Keith Piddington <***@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca> wrote:

: >...but the terminology has. "Summoning sickness" is no longer an Official
: >Magic Term, nor in fact is "summoning". But the rule is the same: a
: >creature has to be under your control through the start of your turn
: >before it can be tapped on its own. (other things can cause it to tap
: >beforehand, however) Also, the creature could have come under your
: >control during your turn or your opponent's - but unless it has "Haste"
: >(the New Term meaning "does not have summoning sickness") it is sick until

: here:

: >your upkeep.

: Nope. It stops being 'sick' as his turn starts, before anything can even
: untap or phase in. (This is _why_ things that phase in do so as though
: they had haste, for a duration, by the way.) It doesn't wait until his
: upkeep to stop being 'sick'.

Quite right, it doesn't...but as upkeep is the first chance after the turn
start to actually tap the creature, the practical result ends up the same.
I should have included the word "effectively" in there... :)


Keith

[Jon Pugh]

Post by Keith Piddington
"Haste"
(the New Term meaning "does not have summoning sickness")

Pedantically, they were "unaffected by summoning sickness", so they
still had it. It just didn't affect them.

I like the fact they haven't been able to coin a better term for this
either.

Jon

[David DeLaney]

Post by Jon Pugh

Post by Keith Piddington
"Haste"
(the New Term meaning "does not have summoning sickness")

Pedantically, they were "unaffected by summoning sickness", so they
still had it. It just didn't affect them.

Right. Only things that phased in had no summon-sickness at all, back then.

Post by Jon Pugh
I like the fact they haven't been able to coin a better term for this either.

Well, it's unpoetic justice, I guess.

Dave

[Daniel W. Johnson]

Post by Michael
I haven't played Magic for a few years now. However, recently I sat
down with a friend of my daughter and played him a few games. He did
something I believe is illegal. Here's how it went.
During his turn, he plays a creature that requires to tap to do an
ability. The creature suffers summoning sickness and he agrees to this
part of the situation.

"summoning sickness"?

Summoning Sickness (Informal)
The term "summoning sickness" is an informal term which describes a
creature's inability to attack or to use activated abilities that
include the tap symbol when it has come under a player's control since
the beginning of that player's most recent turn. See rule 212.3d. See
also Haste.

Post by Michael
However, during my turn, he taps his "just summoned" creature and uses
its ability. I told him he couldn't do that until the beginning of his
next turn. He, however, informs me that the rules now say that a
creature suffers summoning sickness until the end of the caster's turn
and he can do its ability during the next player's turn.

The Proctor & Gamble website includes a copy of a Phil Donahue letter
with a four-word phrase that happens to apply to this claim:

"either mistaken or lying"

Post by Michael
Example: Play a Royal Assassin. It suffers summoning. But, during the
next player's turn, he taps the Assassin to kill a tapped creature the
other player has.

The Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules as of October 1, 2003
include:

212.3d A creature's activated ability with the tap symbol in its
activation cost can't be played unless the creature has been under its
controller's control since the start of his or her most recent turn. A
creature can't attack unless it has been under its controller's control
since the start of his or her most recent turn. This rule is informally
called the "summoning sickness" rule. Ignore this rule for creatures
with haste (see rule 502.5).

Note: "... since the START of his or her most recent turn." He hasn't
started a turn since it came under his control.

Post by Michael
When I played all those years ago, the creature had to wait until my turn
came around again to tap to do it's ability. I'm not talking about
creatures like Frozen Shades, that CAN be pumped up and doesn't need to tap
to do it.
I've looked at the core rules and I can't find anything about summoning
or summoning sickness. But still, I can't believe that the rules have
changed on this particular situation. Could someone give me a heads upon
on this?

"core rules"?

If you mean what I think you mean, what does it say in the middle of
page 7? Or the middle of page 47?

[David DeLaney]

Post by Michael
I haven't played Magic for a few years now. However, recently I sat
down with a friend of my daughter and played him a few games. He did
something I believe is illegal. Here's how it went.
During his turn, he plays a creature that requires to tap to do an
ability. The creature suffers summoning sickness and he agrees to this
part of the situation.
However, during my turn, he taps his "just summoned" creature and uses
its ability. I told him he couldn't do that until the beginning of his
next turn. He, however, informs me that the rules now say that a
creature suffers summoning sickness until the end of the caster's turn
and he can do its ability during the next player's turn.

Nope. He's misinformed; they have never said so. They have always said it
must start _his_ turn under his control before it stops being 'sick'.

He may be confused because "summoning sickness" isn't an official Magic
term any more - but the relevant rules state the same thing I just did
(212.3d).

Post by Michael
Example: Play a Royal Assassin. It suffers summoning. But, during the
next player's turn, he taps the Assassin to kill a tapped creature the
other player has.

He cannot do so; it hasn't been under his control since the start of HIS
most recent turn, yet. It won't stop being 'sick', using that paradigm,
until it starts HIS turn under his control.

(He also may have been confused by the reminder text many cards with Haste
have; that reminder text, alas, is misleading, and is not in itself a rule.)

Post by Michael
When I played all those years ago, the creature had to wait until my turn
came around again to tap to do it's ability. I'm not talking about
creatures like Frozen Shades, that CAN be pumped up and doesn't need to tap
to do it.

This is still the case. Much of the game will still be fairly recognizable
for you, in fact...

Dave