Triskelion + Scythe of the Wretched

[Zaxx]

I just realized I don't understand this combo.

With the Scythe equipped, Triskelion is a 5/5. Two points of damage to the
target of your choice followed by one to the Triskelion itself and you've
got a 2/2 with one point of damage on it.

Yet I keep reading that Triskelion will go to your graveyard, triggering the
Scythe and reanimating the Triskelion thus allowing an infinite amount of
damage.

So what am I not seeing here?

[David DeLaney]

Post by Zaxx
I just realized I don't understand this combo.
With the Scythe equipped, Triskelion is a 5/5. Two points of damage to the
target of your choice followed by one to the Triskelion itself and you've
got a 2/2 with one point of damage on it.
Yet I keep reading that Triskelion will go to your graveyard, triggering the
Scythe and reanimating the Triskelion thus allowing an infinite amount of
damage.
So what am I not seeing here?

It's more that they're not seeing it - the Scythe gives +2/+2 to the Triskit
but somehow it's real easy to forget that while writing about the combo. (I've
done so myself. Twice now.)

The combo is actually "two damage to Trisk, one to something else", which
works just fine as a loop; a 2/2 with 2 damage on it -does- die, right?

Dave

[Zaxx]

Post by David DeLaney
It's more that they're not seeing it - the Scythe gives +2/+2 to the
Triskit but somehow it's real easy to forget that while writing about
the combo. (I've done so myself. Twice now.)

Glad to know I wasn't imagining things.

Post by David DeLaney
The combo is actually "two damage to Trisk, one to something else",
which works just fine as a loop; a 2/2 with 2 damage on it -does-
die, right?

Now that I have another look at the card, I don't think that works either.
Triskelion comes into play as a 4/4 (1/1, CIP with three +1/+1 counters)
barring any effects to the contrary, correct? Tack on the Scythe and you've
got a 6/6. Remove all three counters and it's still a 3/3. So even if
Triskelion pings itself twice, the damage isn't lethal.

Is this not a two-piece combo after all?

[Thom Jeffries]

"Zaxx" wrote ...

Post by Zaxx

Post by David DeLaney
It's more that they're not seeing it - the Scythe gives +2/+2 to the
Triskit but somehow it's real easy to forget that while writing about
the combo. (I've done so myself. Twice now.)

Glad to know I wasn't imagining things.

Post by David DeLaney
The combo is actually "two damage to Trisk, one to something else",
which works just fine as a loop; a 2/2 with 2 damage on it -does-
die, right?

Now that I have another look at the card, I don't think that works either.
Triskelion comes into play as a 4/4 (1/1, CIP with three +1/+1 counters)
barring any effects to the contrary, correct? Tack on the Scythe and you've
got a 6/6. Remove all three counters and it's still a 3/3. So even if
Triskelion pings itself twice, the damage isn't lethal.
Is this not a two-piece combo after all?

Slap a Leonin Elder or Disciple of the Vault in
there and you've got it. Scythe on Trike, three
counters removed to do three damage to itself,
Trike dies and goes to graveyard, (triggers
Disciple ability), Trike comes back, (triggers
Elder ability), Scythe gets attached to him again.

Or add a second Trike, via hard-cast, Scuplting Steel,
etc. Two Trikes, one Scythe. Attach Scythe to TrikeA.

Start (TrikeA: 6/6 0dmg, TrikeB: 4/4 0dmg)
TrikeA pings opponent. (TrikeA: 5/5 0dmg, TrikeB: 4/4 0dmg)
TrikeA pings itself. (TrikeA: 4/4 1dmg, TrikeB: 4/4 0dmg)
TrikeA pings TrikeB. (TrikeA: 3/3 1dmg, TrikeB: 4/4 1dmg)
TrikeB pings TrikeA. (TrikeA: 3/3 2dmg, TrikeB: 3/3 1dmg)
TrikeB pings TrikeA. (TrikeA: 3/3 3dmg, TrikeB: 2/2 1dmg)
TrikeA goes to graveyard.
TrikeA comes back to play.
Scythe is attached to TrikeA.
TrikeB pings anything. (TrikeA: 6/6 0dmg, TrikeB: 1/1 1dmg);
TrikeB goes to graveyard.
TrikeB comes back to play.
TrikeB is attached with Scythe.
Start again. (TrikeA: 4/4 0dmg, TrikeB: 6/6 0dmg)

A nice bonus is that to stop it, your opponent will need
to keep the pieces from resolving, Stifle at a particularly
nasty moment, or have a Damping Matrix in play. Of course
Damping Matrix is only getting more and more popular all the
time, so it may not be the best combo deck to try for serious
play.

[Zaxx]

Post by Thom Jeffries
Slap a Leonin Elder or Disciple of the Vault in
there and you've got it. Scythe on Trike, three
counters removed to do three damage to itself,
Trike dies and goes to graveyard, (triggers
Disciple ability), Trike comes back, (triggers
Elder ability), Scythe gets attached to him again.

That'd work.

Post by Thom Jeffries
Or add a second Trike, via hard-cast, Scuplting Steel,
etc. Two Trikes, one Scythe. Attach Scythe to TrikeA.

It'd be easier to have the Trisk without the Scythe do all 3 to your
opponent's dome. The Trisk with the Scythe pings opponent for two and the
other Trisk (now a 1/1) for 1. Then you just go two to opponent, 1 to
unequipped Trisk for as long as they can't figure out how to stop you. <eg>

[David DeLaney]

Post by Zaxx

Post by David DeLaney
It's more that they're not seeing it - the Scythe gives +2/+2 to the
Triskit but somehow it's real easy to forget that while writing about
the combo. (I've done so myself. Twice now.)

Glad to know I wasn't imagining things.

Post by David DeLaney
The combo is actually "two damage to Trisk, one to something else",
which works just fine as a loop; a 2/2 with 2 damage on it -does-
die, right?

Now that I have another look at the card, I don't think that works either.
Triskelion comes into play as a 4/4 (1/1, CIP with three +1/+1 counters)
barring any effects to the contrary, correct? Tack on the Scythe and you've
got a 6/6. Remove all three counters and it's still a 3/3. So even if
Triskelion pings itself twice, the damage isn't lethal.

Okay, fair enough. And pinging itself three times, while quite loopable
(if there's not anything ELSE I'm overlooking here - I've got some other
stuff on my mind this week, alas), isn't very useful in most cases. Though
with Disciple of the Vault it's all you really need...

Post by Zaxx
Is this not a two-piece combo after all?

Looks like it's not. Add a Goblin Sharpshooter and it works, I think that was
the original setup the first time I ran into the problem...

Dave

[Zoe Stephenson]

Post by Zaxx
I just realized I don't understand this combo.
With the Scythe equipped, Triskelion is a 5/5. Two points of damage to the
target of your choice followed by one to the Triskelion itself and you've
got a 2/2 with one point of damage on it.
Yet I keep reading that Triskelion will go to your graveyard, triggering the
Scythe and reanimating the Triskelion thus allowing an infinite amount of
damage.
So what am I not seeing here?

According to http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/rb89 the
Scythe originally gave a +2/+1 bonus, making the combo quite feasible.
They added an extra +0/+1 to stop the combo from being so degenerate.

[Zaxx]

Post by Zoe Stephenson
According to http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/rb89
the Scythe originally gave a +2/+1 bonus, making the combo quite
feasible. They added an extra +0/+1 to stop the combo from being so
degenerate.

Thank you for clearing that up. I was starting to doubt my powers of
comprehension. So this indeed a three-piece combo now. No problem.

<eyeballing Spawning Pit>

[Andy Jakcsy]

Zaxx sez:

<<

Post by Zaxx
I just realized I don't understand this combo.
With the Scythe equipped, Triskelion is a 5/5. Two points of damage to the
target of your choice followed by one to the Triskelion itself and you've
got a 2/2 with one point of damage on it.
Yet I keep reading that Triskelion will go to your graveyard, triggering the
Scythe and reanimating the Triskelion thus allowing an infinite amount of
damage.
So what am I not seeing here?

You're not missing anything, but according to Randy Buehler, you COULD've had
an unbounded damage combo if it was printed as designed (the creature would've
gotten +2/+1 instead of +2/+2...) And he wrote an article about it, where most
of the literature on this combo comes from...except that in THAT column, it
took 2 damage to the Tri to kill it...with the Scythe as it is now, it takes
ALL THREE counters just to kill the Tri, which isn't an effective combo with
anything except Disciple of the Vault...


----
"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
--Sigmund Freud
"Sometimes a cake is just a cake."
--Deanna Troi, Star Trek: TNG: "Phantasms"