Priority and Orim's Chant

[Chuck Whitby]

Local tournament scene has seen a lot of blue/white control with a
Sceptered Orim's Chant on it. I have a question about player priority and
the playing of the Chant.

Say my opponent has UUUWWW available for tapping, and an untapped Scepter
with a Chant imprinted on it. I go through my UUD and am now in my first
main phase. When I enter my main phase he immediately 'kicks a Chant.'
Being that it is my turn and I have priority, don't I have the option to
cast spells and such first, then he has a chance to respond. And if I
choose not to play spells, then he may play his Orim's Chant to lock me
out.

So basically my question is this, I enter my main phase, he attempts to
'kick a Chant' at which time I tell him I get to cast stuff first and he
may respond. So we backtrack and I play something like a Living Hive (just
named something random), then in response he activates the Septered Orim's
Chant. Is my spell still considered played and on the stack when the
'kicked Chant' is placed on the stack and then my spell will resolve, or
will the resolution of his Orim's Chant prevent my spell from resolving?
--
__
Chuck Whitby
ECGX Founder
PhillyClassic Founder
IntvGN Founder
Four Tutors Founder
Too Many Games Founder

...is there anything this kid CAN'T do?

http://ecgx.com

[Jeff Heikkinen]

Chuck Whitby, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...

Post by Chuck Whitby
Local tournament scene has seen a lot of blue/white control with a
Sceptered Orim's Chant on it. I have a question about player priority and
the playing of the Chant.
Say my opponent has UUUWWW available for tapping, and an untapped Scepter
with a Chant imprinted on it. I go through my UUD and am now in my first
main phase. When I enter my main phase he immediately 'kicks a Chant.'
Being that it is my turn and I have priority, don't I have the option to
cast spells and such first, then he has a chance to respond. And if I
choose not to play spells, then he may play his Orim's Chant to lock me
out.
So basically my question is this, I enter my main phase, he attempts to
'kick a Chant' at which time I tell him I get to cast stuff first and he
may respond. So we backtrack and I play something like a Living Hive (just
named something random), then in response he activates the Septered Orim's
Chant. Is my spell still considered played and on the stack when the
'kicked Chant' is placed on the stack and then my spell will resolve, or
will the resolution of his Orim's Chant prevent my spell from resolving?

If your opponent is silly enough to play his Chant in the way you've
described, it will not counter your spell. It only prevents any
additional spells from being announced.

Your opponent should play it earlier in your turn, such as during your
upkeep step.

[Andy Jakcsy]

Chuck Whitby sez:

<<

Post by Chuck Whitby
Local tournament scene has seen a lot of blue/white control with a
Sceptered Orim's Chant on it. I have a question about player priority and

the playing of the Chant.

Post by Chuck Whitby
Say my opponent has UUUWWW available for tapping, and an untapped Scepter
with a Chant imprinted on it. I go through my UUD and am now in my first
main phase. When I enter my main phase he immediately 'kicks a Chant.'
Being that it is my turn and I have priority, don't I have the option to
cast spells and such first, then he has a chance to respond. And if I
choose not to play spells, then he may play his Orim's Chant to lock me
out.

Sure. But did you give him ample warning before you entered the Main phase?
If not, he can argue that he hasn't passed his draw step priority yet, and you
should back up and give him that chance.

But, assuming you did:

<<

Post by Chuck Whitby
So basically my question is this, I enter my main phase, he attempts to
'kick a Chant' at which time I tell him I get to cast stuff first and he
may respond. So we backtrack and I play something like a Living Hive (just
named something random), then in response he activates the Septered Orim's
Chant. Is my spell still considered played and on the stack when the
'kicked Chant' is placed on the stack and then my spell will resolve, or
will the resolution of his Orim's Chant prevent my spell from resolving?

Orim's Chant isn't a Counterspell. Meaning it doesn't stop any spells that
have already been played. Which is why most players play Orim's Chant during
their opponents' upkeep or draw step. If you gave him the chance, and he
didn't, you can play the Hive (or whatever) before he can Chant the rest of
your spells away.


----
"When John Ritter died, it significantly affected his ability to perform."
--Comment on "8 Simple Rules", jumptheshark.com

[Simon Nejmann]

Post by Chuck Whitby
So basically my question is this, I enter my main phase, he attempts to
'kick a Chant' at which time I tell him I get to cast stuff first and he
may respond. So we backtrack and I play something like a Living Hive (just
named something random), then in response he activates the Septered Orim's
Chant. Is my spell still considered played and on the stack when the
'kicked Chant' is placed on the stack and then my spell will resolve, or
will the resolution of his Orim's Chant prevent my spell from resolving?

This is all AFAIK, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong
:)

Orim's chant will prevent you from _playing_ spells, it dosn't counter
anything - thus everything you put on the stack before Orim's resolves
will stay on the stack and resolve unless countered by another effect.

However, and now I'm asking the group, can't he activate the scepter
during your upkeep phase?
That would shut you down something fierce: Sure you can play instants
and abilities too, but it will be before your draw phase and it will
be before you get the chance to play your Living Hive first.

[David DeLaney]

Post by Simon Nejmann
Orim's chant will prevent you from _playing_ spells, it dosn't counter
anything - thus everything you put on the stack before Orim's resolves
will stay on the stack and resolve unless countered by another effect.

And anything put on the stack in response to the Chant, before it can resolve,
is also totally unaffected, by the way.

Post by Simon Nejmann
However, and now I'm asking the group, can't he activate the scepter
during your upkeep phase?

Sure, and most players would. If he's _silly_ enough to wait until your Main
phase, you can get one nonInstant spell off... but most players won't be that
silly.

Dave

[Peter Cooper Jr.]

Post by Chuck Whitby
Local tournament scene has seen a lot of blue/white control with a
Sceptered Orim's Chant on it. I have a question about player priority and
the playing of the Chant.
Say my opponent has UUUWWW available for tapping, and an untapped Scepter
with a Chant imprinted on it. I go through my UUD and am now in my first
main phase. When I enter my main phase he immediately 'kicks a Chant.'
Being that it is my turn and I have priority, don't I have the option to
cast spells and such first, then he has a chance to respond. And if I
choose not to play spells, then he may play his Orim's Chant to lock me
out.

If things occur in the order you described, then you are
correct. However, you can't unilaterally enter your first main
phase. He gets a chance to do things during your upkeep and draw
step. So if you quickly say "Untap, Upkeep, Draw" and then he tries to
do something, he can legitimately claim that he wants to do it during
your draw step, which is before your first main phase. If he's really
smart about it, he'll probably play it the first chance he gets during
your upkeep.

It's one of those things that's only a problem because we don't want
to explicitly pass priority every single time because it would bog the
game down too much. However, in cases like this where it really
counts, feel free to go slowly and ensure that both players are fully
aware of where you are in the turn.

Post by Chuck Whitby
So basically my question is this, I enter my main phase, he attempts to
'kick a Chant' at which time I tell him I get to cast stuff first and he
may respond. So we backtrack and I play something like a Living Hive (just
named something random), then in response he activates the Septered Orim's
Chant. Is my spell still considered played and on the stack when the
'kicked Chant' is placed on the stack and then my spell will resolve, or
will the resolution of his Orim's Chant prevent my spell from resolving?

If you actually enter your main phase (to be completely clear, you say
"I'd like to move to the main phase now" and he says "okay"), you get
a chance to play stuff first. An Orim's Chant won't stop existing
spells from resolving... It's just that once the Chant resolves, the
targetted player can't play additional spells.

[David DeLaney]

Post by Chuck Whitby
Local tournament scene has seen a lot of blue/white control with a
Sceptered Orim's Chant on it. I have a question about player priority and
the playing of the Chant.

A Chant cannot stop the playing of anything unless it has RESOLVED before
the other spell was PLAYED (announced). In particular, it's not a counterspell
in any way, and can't affect anything it's responding to, or anything that
responds to it.

Post by Chuck Whitby
Say my opponent has UUUWWW available for tapping, and an untapped Scepter
with a Chant imprinted on it. I go through my UUD and am now in my first
main phase. When I enter my main phase he immediately 'kicks a Chant.'

He can't. You get priority first. If he didn't do this during your Beginning
phase, you can get one Sorcery, Creature, or Artifact spell onto the stack
before he gets to do anything.

This is why the Sceptered Chant (and the Chant in -general-) are usually
used during opponent's +upkeep+.

Post by Chuck Whitby
Being that it is my turn and I have priority, don't I have the option to
cast spells and such first, then he has a chance to respond. And if I
choose not to play spells, then he may play his Orim's Chant to lock me
out.

You have priority first. You may add one Sorcery/Creature/Artifact spell
to the stack before he can do anything. (You can't add another, in general,
because you can't play one unless the stack is empty; they can't _respond to_
anything.) You may also add as many Instant spells to the stack as you like
before he gets priority, and if he uses his priority once he gets it to
add a use of the Scepter to the stack, may respond to _that_ (once you have
priority back) with as many Instants as you like also.

But you can't play _more than one_ Sorcery/Creature/Artifact spell before
he gets a chance to Scepter/Chant, in general.

You may play a land without giving him a chance to Scepter/Chant, because
you get priority back again afterwards.

If you choose to play an activated ability first, he can Chant in
response to that; again, you can get as many Instants as you like in before
the Chant can resolve, but once it resolves you're locked out. If he has
Sceptered the Chant, then you'll get to respond to the Scepter ability _and_
later to the Chant spell-copy...

Post by Chuck Whitby
So basically my question is this, I enter my main phase, he attempts to
'kick a Chant' at which time I tell him I get to cast stuff first and he
may respond. So we backtrack and I play something like a Living Hive (just
named something random), then in response he activates the Septered Orim's
Chant. Is my spell still considered played and on the stack when the
'kicked Chant' is placed on the stack and then my spell will resolve, or
will the resolution of his Orim's Chant prevent my spell from resolving?

The Chant is not a counterspell; your Hive is indeed played (announced) before
he can manage to add any responses at all. It hasn't RESOLVED yet, but the
Chant doesn't say anything about stopping that. So yes, your Hive will resolve
- but the Chant will resolve first, so you won't be able to cast ANOTHER
artifact, creature, or sorcery spell afterwards.

Dave