Llawan, Cephalid Empress and Clone

[Dave]

Hi all,

In a casual multiplayer game yesterday, Player A plays Llawan,
Cephalid Empress and bounces all the blue creatures (which was great
because one player had out Morphling and another player had a Clone
of it).

Player B wants to play his clone again, and says that if he chooses
a nonblue creature to clone, then he can get around Llawan's ability
since the Clone won't be blue anymore.

I didn't think this could be done since the clone needs to come into
play first for it's ability to trigger, and since it's blue, it can't
be played.

Who was right? TIA!


Llawan, Cephalid Empress
{3}{U}
Creature -- Cephalid Legend
2/3
When Llawan, Cephalid Empress comes into play, return all blue creatures
your opponents control to their owners' hands.
Your opponents can't play blue creature spells.

Clone
{3}{U}
Creature -- Clone
0/0
As Clone comes into play, you may choose a creature in play. If you do,
Clone comes into play as a copy of that creature.


- Dave

[Daniel W. Johnson]

Post by Dave
Player B wants to play his clone again, and says that if he chooses
a nonblue creature to clone, then he can get around Llawan's ability
since the Clone won't be blue anymore.

Clone is a blue creature spell its entire time on the stack. Its ability
does not change this. In play, it might not be a blue creature, but
that doesn't matter for Llawan, Cephalid Empress. A promise to choose a
nonblue creature as it eventually comes into play is not relevant.

Post by Dave
I didn't think this could be done since the clone needs to come into
play first for it's ability to trigger, and since it's blue, it can't
be played.

Clone doesn't have a triggered ability.

404. Triggered Abilities

404.1. A triggered ability begins with the word "when," "whenever," or
"at." The phrase containing one of these words is the trigger condition,
which defines the trigger event.

[David de Kloet]

Post by Dave
Hi all,
In a casual multiplayer game yesterday, Player A plays Llawan,
Cephalid Empress and bounces all the blue creatures (which was great
because one player had out Morphling and another player had a Clone
of it).
Player B wants to play his clone again, and says that if he chooses
a nonblue creature to clone, then he can get around Llawan's ability
since the Clone won't be blue anymore.
I didn't think this could be done since the clone needs to come into
play first for it's ability to trigger, and since it's blue, it can't
be played.
Who was right? TIA!

You were right but the Clone has no triggered ability and is already the
other color when it comes into play. But it has to resolve (and so be
played as a blue creature spell) before you can choose a creature in play.

David

Post by Dave
Llawan, Cephalid Empress
{3}{U}
Creature -- Cephalid Legend
2/3
When Llawan, Cephalid Empress comes into play, return all blue creatures
your opponents control to their owners' hands.
Your opponents can't play blue creature spells.
Clone
{3}{U}
Creature -- Clone
0/0
As Clone comes into play, you may choose a creature in play. If you do,
Clone comes into play as a copy of that creature.
- Dave

[Lee Sharpe]

Post by Dave
Hi all,
In a casual multiplayer game yesterday, Player A plays Llawan,
Cephalid Empress and bounces all the blue creatures (which was great
because one player had out Morphling and another player had a Clone
of it).
Player B wants to play his clone again, and says that if he chooses
a nonblue creature to clone, then he can get around Llawan's ability
since the Clone won't be blue anymore.
I didn't think this could be done since the clone needs to come into
play first for it's ability to trigger, and since it's blue, it can't
be played.
Who was right? TIA!

It's not a triggered ability, since it doesn't use "when", "whenever", or
"at". Clone is never in play but not copying the chosen creature (if you
chose one). So your opponent was correct in this case.

[Dave]

Post by Lee Sharpe

Post by Dave
Hi all,
In a casual multiplayer game yesterday, Player A plays Llawan,
Cephalid Empress and bounces all the blue creatures (which was great
because one player had out Morphling and another player had a Clone
of it).
Player B wants to play his clone again, and says that if he chooses
a nonblue creature to clone, then he can get around Llawan's ability
since the Clone won't be blue anymore.
I didn't think this could be done since the clone needs to come into
play first for it's ability to trigger, and since it's blue, it can't
be played.
Who was right? TIA!

It's not a triggered ability, since it doesn't use "when", "whenever", or
"at". Clone is never in play but not copying the chosen creature (if you
chose one). So your opponent was correct in this case.

Looks like I'm getting differing opinions on this. So you're saying
that he could play the Clone with the Empress out?

- Dave

[Lee Sharpe]

Post by Dave

Post by Lee Sharpe

Post by Dave
Hi all,
In a casual multiplayer game yesterday, Player A plays Llawan,
Cephalid Empress and bounces all the blue creatures (which was great
because one player had out Morphling and another player had a Clone
of it).
Player B wants to play his clone again, and says that if he chooses
a nonblue creature to clone, then he can get around Llawan's ability
since the Clone won't be blue anymore.
I didn't think this could be done since the clone needs to come into
play first for it's ability to trigger, and since it's blue, it
can't be played.
Who was right? TIA!

It's not a triggered ability, since it doesn't use "when",
"whenever", or "at". Clone is never in play but not copying the
chosen creature (if you chose one). So your opponent was correct in
this case.

Looks like I'm getting differing opinions on this. So you're saying
that he could play the Clone with the Empress out?

Sorry. I misread and thought it was coming into play by another method.
Daniel and David are correct, it cannot be played.

I apologize for the confusion.

[David DeLaney]

Post by Dave
In a casual multiplayer game yesterday, Player A plays Llawan,
Cephalid Empress and bounces all the blue creatures (which was great
because one player had out Morphling and another player had a Clone
of it).

'Kay.

Post by Dave
Player B wants to play his clone again, and says that if he chooses
a nonblue creature to clone, then he can get around Llawan's ability
since the Clone won't be blue anymore.

Nope. The Clone will not stop being blue until it becomes a copy of the chosen
creature. It will not become a copy of the chosen creature until it is
coming into play. It's a blue creature spell back when B is trying to announce
(=="play") it, so he's not allowed to even try.

Post by Dave
I didn't think this could be done since the clone needs to come into
play first for it's ability to trigger, and since it's blue, it can't
be played.

Well, it's not a triggered ability, it's technically a replacement ability
these days. But yes, he's trying to play a blue creature spell, Clone,
which would later on turn into something else, and the game doesn't care
that later on it might turn some other color, the game says "Llawan says
you can't be played -now-".

Dave

[Andy Jakcsy]

Dave sez:

<<

Post by Dave
Hi all,
In a casual multiplayer game yesterday, Player A plays Llawan,
Cephalid Empress and bounces all the blue creatures (which was great
because one player had out Morphling and another player had a Clone
of it).
Player B wants to play his clone again, and says that if he chooses
a nonblue creature to clone, then he can get around Llawan's ability
since the Clone won't be blue anymore.

Nope, sorry. See, Clone remains a blue creature spell until just before it
comes into play. This is long after it's been on the stack, and you have to
play a Clone to put it on the stack. And since when you would play it, Clone
is a blue creature spell, it can't be played per Llawan's ability.

<<

Post by Dave
I didn't think this could be done since the clone needs to come into
play first for it's ability to trigger, and since it's blue, it can't
be played.

Right.

Oh, and there isn't a triggered ability on Clone. The ability is a
characteristic-setting ability, but it's not triggered.


----
"Honey, Shepherd's putting his hair away now."
"It doesn't matter. It'll still be there. Waiting."
Zoe & River, about Book's Einstein hair, Firefly: "Jaynestown"