Isochron and Entwine

[Peter]

Am I correct in thinking that you can't pay the Entwine cost on a card
you've imprinted on Isochron Scepter? I think it's because the
Scepter provides an alternate payment (0), so you can't pay additional
costs.

Or are additional costs okay, you just can't have two alternate means
of payment.

Confused in Cuyahoga,
Peter

[Daniel W. Johnson]

Post by Peter
Am I correct in thinking that you can't pay the Entwine cost on a card
you've imprinted on Isochron Scepter? I think it's because the
Scepter provides an alternate payment (0), so you can't pay additional
costs.
Or are additional costs okay, you just can't have two alternate means
of payment.

Nothing about Isochron Scepter (or any other alternative cost)
interferes with additional costs (such as that of Entwine).

From the Mirrodin FAQ for Isocron Scepter:

* You don't pay the spell's mana cost. If the spell has X in its mana
cost, X is 0. You do pay any additional costs for that spell. You can't
use any alternative costs.

[David DeLaney]

Post by Peter
Am I correct in thinking that you can't pay the Entwine cost on a card
you've imprinted on Isochron Scepter? I think it's because the
Scepter provides an alternate payment (0), so you can't pay additional
costs.

You are not correct. The Scepter produces a mandatory alternate cost, so
you can't pay ALTERNATE costs. Nothing stops you from paying ADDITIONAL
costs. Putting a spell with Entwine on the Scepter lets you pick either
mode, or choose to pay Entwine and pick both. You just aren't paying the
-mana- cost.

Post by Peter
Or are additional costs okay, you just can't have two alternate means
of payment.

This is correct.

Dave

[Keith Piddington]

David DeLaney (***@gatekeeper.vic.com) wrote:
: On 24 Sep 2003 21:12:03 -0700, Peter <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

: The Scepter produces a mandatory alternate cost, so
: you can't pay ALTERNATE costs. Nothing stops you from paying ADDITIONAL
: costs. Putting a spell with Entwine on the Scepter lets you pick either
: mode, or choose to pay Entwine and pick both. You just aren't paying the
: -mana- cost.

: >Or are additional costs okay, you just can't have two alternate means
: >of payment.

: This is correct.

And thus it also works the same way with Kicker...does it?



Keith

[Daniel W. Johnson]

Post by Keith Piddington
And thus it also works the same way with Kicker...does it?

The rule is that you can't apply two alternative methods of playing or
two alternative costs to a single spell or ability. The rule imposes no
restrictions on additional costs, such as a kicker.

[David DeLaney]

Post by Keith Piddington
: The Scepter produces a mandatory alternate cost, so
: you can't pay ALTERNATE costs. Nothing stops you from paying ADDITIONAL
: costs. Putting a spell with Entwine on the Scepter lets you pick either
: mode, or choose to pay Entwine and pick both. You just aren't paying the
: -mana- cost.
: >Or are additional costs okay, you just can't have two alternate means
: >of payment.
: This is correct.
And thus it also works the same way with Kicker...does it?

It does. Or buyback, or Abjure's blue-permanent sacrifice, or Chill Haunting's
removal of creature cards, or Firestorm's card discard, etc.

(Note that paying buyback isn't generally USEFUL, because putting the spell
copy back in your hand means it Dissolves before you can do anything else,
but you can still pay if you want.)

Dave